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Subject: RE: Cougar to Bobcat migration strategy document for review
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 20:50:13 -0800
Message-ID: <BB375AF679D4A34E9CA8DFA650E2B04E080CB141@onstor-exch02.onstor.net>
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Thread-Topic: Cougar to Bobcat migration strategy document for review
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References: <BB375AF679D4A34E9CA8DFA650E2B04E034B4CB7@onstor-exch02.onstor.net>
From: "Paul Hammer" <paul.hammer@onstor.com>
To: "Narayan Venkat" <narayan.venkat@onstor.com>,
	"Joshua Goldenhar" <joshua.goldenhar@onstor.com>,
	"Raj Kumar" <raj.kumar@onstor.com>,
	"Brian DeForest" <brian.deforest@onstor.com>,
	"Sripal Surendiran (HCL)" <sripal.surendiran@onstor.com>,
	"dl-Design Review" <dl-designreview@onstor.com>

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I agree. Think we must have a migration path that does not require all =
of the nodes being down or all of the volumes being offline, think we =
have to have a rolling migartion plan, assume the customer has extrra =
ports and cables and does not have to resue them from the Cougar to the =
bobcat. Have to have and approach that would allow for minor outages =
perhaps one volume at a time but not everything being taken down at once =
for a period of time.=20
=20
-Paul

________________________________

From: Narayan Venkat
Sent: Thu 2/14/2008 7:32 PM
To: Joshua Goldenhar; Raj Kumar; Brian DeForest; Sripal Surendiran =
(HCL); dl-Design Review
Subject: Re: Cougar to Bobcat migration strategy document for review



Josh is right.  Such a long outage is not acceptable.  We need a =
faster/better approach to upgrade.  We have many customers (Savvis in =
particular) that won't accept so much downtime.

What are our other options?

Narayan Venkat
Tel: (408) 963-2404
Cell: (408) 221-4297
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld


-----Original Message-----
From: Joshua Goldenhar
To: Raj Kumar; Brian DeForest; Sripal Surendiran (HCL); dl-Design Review
Sent: Thu Feb 14 18:07:56 2008
Subject: RE: Cougar to Bobcat migration strategy document for review

It is an acknowledged problem and no, I don't find it acceptable but we =
all have to compromise sometimes.

My hope is that at some point we can offer a vserver migration type =
upgrade, or some other method that does not require service disruption.

-Josh

Josh Goldenhar
Phone: 408 963 2408, Cell: 408 547 7693




________________________________

        From: Raj Kumar
        Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 5:09 PM
        To: Brian DeForest; Sripal Surendiran (HCL); dl-Design Review
        Subject: RE: Cougar to Bobcat migration strategy document for =
review
      =20
      =20

        I think the main issue is whether the *required* downtime for =
this migration is acceptable or not. If it's not acceptable then we will =
need to workout a solution. I simply suggested BC-CG mixed cluster as a =
solution which may or may not be feasible in cougar.

       =20

        I can not believe we can get customers to completely loose their =
services for this long period. Or am I wrong? Probably marketing/support =
folks will have better understanding about this situation than me.

       =20

        ________________________________

                From: Brian DeForest
        Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 5:00 PM
        To: Raj Kumar; Sripal Surendiran (HCL); dl-Design Review
        Subject: RE: Cougar to Bobcat migration strategy document for =
review

       =20

        Supporting a mixed BC/CG cluster is not currently a requirement =
for Cougar software.   If that were to become a new requirement, this =
document would need to be revised to accomodate that.

       =20

        ________________________________

                From: Raj Kumar
        Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 4:09 PM
        To: Sripal Surendiran (HCL); dl-Design Review
        Subject: RE: Cougar to Bobcat migration strategy document for =
review

        Hi all,

       =20

        Is everybody ok with this requirement?

       =20

        1.      "Migration requires downtime of the entire Bobcat =
cluster.

       =20

        The following operation will add up to the total downtime while =
we migrate from BC to CG.

       =20

        For Each node in a cluster:

       =20

        1.      Power down BC and take care removing all cables, label =
them, remove power cable, flash cards, label them.
        2.      Remove BC from the rack
        3.      mount cougar
        4.      Installing FP/FC cables and modifying MAC and rebooting =
it again.
        5.      Usual boot up time + updating config from 2ndry flash

       =20

        The above tasks can take anywhere between 50 minutes to 2 hours =
depends on the racking conditions and/or labor skills/availability.

       =20

        If you have a 2 node, total down time: 1 hours 40 minutes to 4 =
hours

        If you have 4 node: 3 hours 20 minutes to 8 hours.

       =20

        We need to be prepared for the worst case scenario as well. If =
for any reason we run into some issues bringing up services in cougar, =
we will need to revert back to BC. It will be the same time it takes to =
migrate to cougar.

       =20

        Is this downtime acceptable?

       =20

        Did we consider some kind of rolling upgrade? Possibly =
supporting BC-CG cluster just for upgrade purposes?

       =20

        Thanks.

       =20

       =20

        ________________________________

                From: Sripal Surendiran (HCL)
        Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 8:07 AM
        To: dl-Design Review
        Cc: Sripal Surendiran (HCL)
        Subject: Cougar to Bobcat migration strategy document for review

       =20

        Hi all,

       =20

        PFA Bobcat to Cougar migration strategy functional specification =
document. Please do respond me with your review comments.

       =20

        Regards,

        Sripal.




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<HTML dir=3Dltr><HEAD><TITLE>Re: Cougar to Bobcat migration strategy =
document for review</TITLE>=0A=
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dunicode">=0A=
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.3132" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>=0A=
<BODY>=0A=
<DIV id=3DidOWAReplyText59954 dir=3Dltr>=0A=
<DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I agree. =
Think we must have a migration path that does not require all of the =
nodes being down or all of the volumes being offline, think we have to =
have a rolling migartion plan, assume the customer has extrra ports and =
cables and does not have to resue them from the Cougar to the bobcat. =
Have to have and approach&nbsp;that would allow for minor outages =
perhaps one volume at a time but not everything being taken down at once =
for a period of time. </FONT></DIV>=0A=
<DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A=
<DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>-Paul</FONT></DIV></DIV>=0A=
<DIV dir=3Dltr><BR>=0A=
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>=0A=
<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Narayan Venkat<BR><B>Sent:</B> =
Thu 2/14/2008 7:32 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Joshua Goldenhar; Raj Kumar; Brian =
DeForest; Sripal Surendiran (HCL); dl-Design Review<BR><B>Subject:</B> =
Re: Cougar to Bobcat migration strategy document for =
review<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>=0A=
<DIV>=0A=
<P><FONT size=3D2>Josh is right.&nbsp; Such a long outage is not =
acceptable.&nbsp; We need a faster/better approach to upgrade.&nbsp; We =
have many customers (Savvis in particular) that won't accept so much =
downtime.<BR><BR>What are our other options?<BR><BR>Narayan =
Venkat<BR>Tel: (408) 963-2404<BR>Cell: (408) =
221-4297<BR>--------------------------<BR>Sent from my BlackBerry =
Wireless Handheld<BR><BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: Joshua =
Goldenhar<BR>To: Raj Kumar; Brian DeForest; Sripal Surendiran (HCL); =
dl-Design Review<BR>Sent: Thu Feb 14 18:07:56 2008<BR>Subject: RE: =
Cougar to Bobcat migration strategy document for review<BR><BR>It is an =
acknowledged problem and no, I don't find it acceptable but we all have =
to compromise sometimes.<BR><BR>My hope is that at some point we can =
offer a vserver migration type upgrade, or some other method that does =
not require service disruption.<BR><BR>-Josh<BR><BR>Josh =
Goldenhar<BR>Phone: 408 963 2408, Cell: 408 547 =
7693<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>________________________________<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; From: Raj =
Kumar<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sent: Thursday, =
February 14, 2008 5:09 PM<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
To: Brian DeForest; Sripal Surendiran (HCL); dl-Design =
Review<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Subject: RE: Cougar =
to Bobcat migration strategy document for =
review<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; I think the main issue is whether the *required* downtime for this =
migration is acceptable or not. If it&#8217;s not acceptable then we =
will need to workout a solution. I simply suggested BC-CG mixed cluster =
as a solution which may or may not be feasible in =
cougar.<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR><BR>&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I can not believe we can get =
customers to completely loose their services for this long period. Or am =
I wrong? Probably marketing/support folks will have better understanding =
about this situation than =
me.<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR><BR>&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
________________________________<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; From: Brian =
DeForest<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sent: Thursday, =
February 14, 2008 5:00 PM<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
To: Raj Kumar; Sripal Surendiran (HCL); dl-Design =
Review<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Subject: RE: Cougar =
to Bobcat migration strategy document for =
review<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR><BR>&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Supporting a mixed BC/CG cluster =
is not currently a requirement for Cougar software.&nbsp;&nbsp; If that =
were to become a new requirement, this document would need to be revised =
to accomodate =
that.<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR><BR>&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
________________________________<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; From: Raj =
Kumar<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sent: Thursday, =
February 14, 2008 4:09 PM<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
To: Sripal Surendiran (HCL); dl-Design =
Review<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Subject: RE: Cougar =
to Bobcat migration strategy document for =
review<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Hi =
all,<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR><BR>&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Is everybody ok with this =
requirement?<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR><=
BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
1.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#8220;Migration requires downtime of =
the entire Bobcat =
cluster.<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR><BR>&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The following operation will =
add up to the total downtime while we migrate from BC to =
CG.<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR><BR>&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; For Each node in a =
cluster:<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR><BR>&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
1.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Power down BC and take care removing =
all cables, label them, remove power cable, flash cards, label =
them.<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
2.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Remove BC from the =
rack<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
3.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; mount =
cougar<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
4.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Installing FP/FC cables and modifying =
MAC and rebooting it =
again.<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
5.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Usual boot up time + updating config =
from 2ndry =
flash<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR><BR>&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The above tasks can take anywhere =
between 50 minutes to 2 hours depends on the racking conditions and/or =
labor =
skills/availability.<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; If you have a 2 =
node, total down time: 1 hours 40 minutes to 4 =
hours<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; If you have 4 =
node: 3 hours 20 minutes to 8 =
hours.<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR><BR>&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; We need to be prepared for the =
worst case scenario as well. If for any reason we run into some issues =
bringing up services in cougar, we will need to revert back to BC. It =
will be the same time it takes to migrate to =
cougar.<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR><BR>&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Is this downtime =
acceptable?<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR><B=
R>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Did we consider some kind =
of rolling upgrade? Possibly supporting BC-CG cluster just for upgrade =
purposes?<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR><BR>=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Thanks.<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR><BR>&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
________________________________<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; From: Sripal =
Surendiran (HCL)<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sent: =
Thursday, February 07, 2008 8:07 =
AM<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; To: dl-Design =
Review<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Cc: Sripal =
Surendiran (HCL)<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Subject: =
Cougar to Bobcat migration strategy document for =
review<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR><BR>&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Hi =
all,<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR><BR>&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; PFA Bobcat to Cougar migration =
strategy functional specification document. Please do respond me with =
your review =
comments.<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR><BR>=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Regards,<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Sripal.<BR><BR></FONT></P></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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